Teach me about my 350 Rocket

[1977 Cutly]

I've got a spare rocket V8 on a stand in my garage, block code 395558, wearing #8 heads. I was told it 'did wheelies' in the g body cutlass it was in. sounds like BS to me, but I got it for next to nothin, complete with TH400.

Any chance this might make decent power, or just a pile of spare parts?

[74hurstolds]

Yea I'd say it's been rebuilt and would make decent power. What else do you know about the motor? What was done to the heads, bottom end etc? I have a motor that was 'blueprinted' with shaved #8 heads yada yada yada and it generates great horsepower, but by no means will make a car do wheelies. I'd say it's possibly comprable to the one you have being that it's a typical kick ass rebuild with smog heads, so you'll know that it can't go that far. The motor I have got up and went. It needed a 2200 stall converter though and the 256 rear did no good unless you were trying to mess with someone at 70mph. For shits and grins post this on ROP and see what kind of 'help' you get. It's a witch hunt on there to get any good advise but there is a plethora of great information on there if you do searches. PM me if you want to figure this thing out more.

[zates]

Great post... It raises a pretty low end question for those of us running stock smog head engines. What would it take to rid the engine of the things inhibiting it? Obviously losing the cat and adding duals would help. Is it necessary to replace the heads with pre 73's? Basically, what needs to be done to take a 76 350, and make it into a 69 350?

I have a great deal of respect for all of you motorheads, but can you make it fairly simple?

Pete

Mike... where are you in Wisconsin?

[W451973]

Great post... It raises a pretty low end question for those of us running stock smog head engines. What would it take to rid the engine of the things inhibiting it? Obviously losing the cat and adding duals would help. Is it necessary to replace the heads with pre 73's? Basically, what needs to be done to take a 76 350, and make it into a 69 350?

I have a great deal of respect for all of you motorheads, but can you make it fairly simple?

Pete

Mike... where are you in Wisconsin?

You need to change the heads, cam, intake and exhaust. Keep the q-jet and hei. You need 72 and older heads. You should always consider a better gear and converter.

[grumpy hvacr]

http://www.mondellotwister.com/ArtOthr350s.htm
I read this article in car craft a few years ago. Doesn't go into much detail. The article talked more about the pontiac and buick 350's:mad:

With basic bolt on's (headers, dual exhaust, msd 6 ignition, advance curve kit, good wires, cap, and rotors, etc), the 350 will really wake up in stock form.

Pulling the front wheels off the ground in a G body, you need more than a strong motor (rear suspension work, stronger drivetrain parts, and sticky tires to get all the power to the ground). But a 350 in a smaller car should fly.

[W451973]

Me thinks someone was stretching the truth a little when he sold you the motor. The nice thing about the 73-76 350's that most don't know is it already has the small dish higher compression pistons in it. Yes, you heard me right. Olds made the # 8 heads with an 80 cc ( give or take a little for mass production ) chamber. So they had to use the smaller dish pistons with those chambers. It also has the exact same block, crank and rods as the 68-72. So don't believe all that bs and crap about the 73 and later motors being all junk. BULLTICKY. Now the 77-79 motors are different and left for a converstaion some other time. Now you should be able to get an easy 9-9.5 to 1 compression DEPENDING on the head gasket you use, which heads you use, their chamber volume, how much is cut off the heads and how far down the piston is in the hole.

Basicly, bolting on a set of reconditioned # 4, 5, 6, 7 or 7a ( 1972 350 ), with a clean up cut and a Fel pro blue head gasket should give you about 9 -1 compression. Cut a little more and use a thinner gasket will give you a little higher. This is just a BASIC over view. Using the ORIGINAL stock pistons. If the block has been bored and/or has aftermarket pistons then you'll have to SEE THE NOTE BELOW.

NOTE - DISCLAIMER. An ACCURATE final compression ratio will DEPEND on the head gasket you use, which heads you use, their chamber volume, how much is cut off the heads, how far down the piston is in the hole and the pistons dish, ( cc ) chamber size.

[zates]

That's really informative AND helpful. My car is essentially new, with 25,000 miles. I really have no future plans to beef it out of town. But I would like to get rid of the EPA factory junk at some point to give it some more go. So... heads and duals I get. And if I'm reading right, the pistons will not need any mods.

Tell me more about the need to change cams and intake. Is there something different about the stock 76 350 cam and intake that is different from a 72?

Very helpful, guys.... Thanks.

Peter

[1977 Cutly]

Thanks for all the great input. I want to pull this thing apart and see what the guts are. It has a street dominator intake and a mondello oil pan, and is complete minus the carb.
I planned on installing it in my 77 in the event I wanted to sell it, but that car is family now and so the 350 is simply a spare engine.
Some people have spare tires, I have a spare 350 and th400.
My name is 1977 Cutly, and I am an Oldsaholic.

ETA: I'm in Western Wisconsin, not too far from the St Croix river.

[Mike 77]

It's quite easy to make that engine pull wheelies on a G-body.
Mount it in the trunk!

[1977 Cutly]

It's quite easy to make that engine pull wheelies on a G-body.
Mount it in the trunk!

Don't give me any ideas, I still remember 'hemi under glass'.
http://www.prostockhemi.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=702&g2_serialNumber=1

[twistedcutlass]

"Some people have spare tires, I have a spare 350 and th400.
My name is 1977 Cutly, and I am an Oldsaholic.




i have an olds, (new motor just went south on me):(
i have a spare th350, two th400's, two 455's and now i have a car that needs another new engine.........rebuild the 350 or is it just time to go big????
just another oldsaholic here in colorado.....:D

[grumpy hvacr]

Oldsaholic.

I love it.

[W451973]

That's really informative AND helpful. My car is essentially new, with 25,000 miles. I really have no future plans to beef it out of town. But I would like to get rid of the EPA factory junk at some point to give it some more go. So... heads and duals I get. And if I'm reading right, the pistons will not need any mods.

Tell me more about the need to change cams and intake. Is there something different about the stock 76 350 cam and intake that is different from a 72?

Very helpful, guys.... Thanks.

Peter

Sorry, it got a little long winded. If you are not gonna touch the short block and it is the original untouched motor then you do not need to worry about the pistons. If you are gonna do the heads then you will want to buy a bigger cam and aftermarket intake.

If you are only wanting a little better pick up and performance, do a gear change and add a good dual exhaust system. You don't want or need a big aftermarket 2-1/2 inch pipe. Not with a stock 350. And a "good" tune job. I'm not talking plugs and wires. I'm talking curve kit, timing, jetting and carb tuning. KEEP the q-jet.

[Eightupman]

Me thinks someone was stretching the truth a little when he sold you the motor. The nice thing about the 73-76 350's that most don't know is it already has the small dish higher compression pistons in it. Yes, you heard me right. Olds made the # 8 heads with an 80 cc ( give or take a little for mass production ) chamber. So they had to use the smaller dish pistons with those chambers. It also has the exact same block, crank and rods as the 68-72. So don't believe all that bs and crap about the 73 and later motors being all junk. BULLTICKY. Now the 77-79 motors are different and left for a converstaion some other time. Now you should be able to get an easy 9-9.5 to 1 compression DEPENDING on the head gasket you use, which heads you use, their chamber volume, how much is cut off the heads and how far down the piston is in the hole.

Basicly, bolting on a set of reconditioned # 4, 5, 6, 7 or 7a ( 1972 350 ), with a clean up cut and a Fel pro blue head gasket should give you about 9 -1 compression. Cut a little more and use a thinner gasket will give you a little higher.

I like this post, but something needs to be mentioned. the #4 heads will need a little extra work in the pushrod hole as the odd bank angle will cause them to rub the head when bolted to a 68 and newer block. this can be done with a dremel or die grinder.

Additionally, Rocket Racing Performance sells .028 thickness head gaskets for about $28 each. In this case it would be a wise investment to bump the compression over the .040 Felpro gasket.

If you were feeling froggy, get a Mr Gasket intake set and port match the head and intake. Can be done at home quite easily with a cheapy Harbour Freight die grinder and some sanding drums from Eastwood. And hell while you are in there with the grinder, knock off the AIR bumps in the exhaust ports. So for ABOUT another $150 investment (gaskets, tool, and sanding drums) you are going to get a LOT better flow and a bit more compression (not much more than a point) out of that motor with ZERO machine work.

John

[Eightupman]

"Some people have spare tires, I have a spare 350 and th400.
My name is 1977 Cutly, and I am an Oldsaholic.




i have an olds, (new motor just went south on me):(
i have a spare th350, two th400's, two 455's and now i have a car that needs another new engine.........rebuild the 350 or is it just time to go big????
just another oldsaholic here in colorado.....:D

Oldsaholic.

13 motors, (350's 403 and 455's) 6 BOP Auto transmissions, 1 M20, three rear ends (2 posi) and two parts car, and no more space in my two car garage, with only one car in it.

And I've seen people with 10X what I have.

I'm beyond Oldsaholic :)

John

[1977 Cutly]

I love this place!
Thanks to everyone for the info, This Spring I'll pull a head off that 350 and see what I've got. Anyone know where I can get a 1977 Starfire to put this thing in? I bet it would do wheelies in that!

[zates]

This has been an outstanding thread. Thanks much for posting. I won't be starting anytime soon - it's going to be driving time! But it's given me great food for thought, and some time to look for heads. Much obliged to all.

[W451973]

I like this post, but something needs to be mentioned. the #4 heads will need a little extra work in the pushrod hole as the odd bank angle will cause them to rub the head when bolted to a 68 and newer block. this can be done with a dremel or die grinder.

Additionally, Rocket Racing Performance sells .028 thickness head gaskets for about $28 each. In this case it would be a wise investment to bump the compression over the .040 Felpro gasket.

If you were feeling froggy, get a Mr Gasket intake set and port match the head and intake. Can be done at home quite easily with a cheapy Harbour Freight die grinder and some sanding drums from Eastwood. And hell while you are in there with the grinder, knock off the AIR bumps in the exhaust ports. So for ABOUT another $150 investment (gaskets, tool, and sanding drums) you are going to get a LOT better flow and a bit more compression (not much more than a point) out of that motor with ZERO machine work.

John

Thanks for the addition, John.

But you may want to double check that info on the #4 heads. Number 4 heads were used on 1967 330's. The 1967 330's had a 39 degree LBA just like all 350's and 455's. So there shouldn't be any need to modify the push rod holes.

[Bill G]

I love this place!
. Anyone know where I can get a 1977 Starfire to put this thing in? I bet it would do wheelies in that!

Got 2 buddies in my olds club with them- one is modified, and he's working on a motor for it..not sure what though..:)
The whole car could fit in the trunk of my 74 Salon..:)

[Eightupman]

Thanks for the addition, John.

But you may want to double check that info on the #4 heads. Number 4 heads were used on 1967 330's. The 1967 330's had a 39 degree LBA just like all 350's and 455's. So there shouldn't be any need to modify the push rod holes.

Gotcha.. its the #2 and #3 heads. I was thinking 330 in general. I keep forgetting there were both angles on the 330 and 425 in that era. I kinda discount the #1 heads because of the TON of work on those, and the rarity at this point.

[SkylinesSuck]

So I've been researching a bit and this is one thread I've found helpful. I was looking at what was said about advancing timing and I realize there is the base timing set at the dizzy and timing advance curve set by the, well, vacuum advance thingy :o Would this:

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Accel-Distributor-Mechanical-Advance-Perf/_/N-a04ru?itemIdentifier=252783&_requestid=1226597

be what I need with a stock distributor to change the timing advance curve, or this?

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/parts/Accel-Vacuum-Advance-Distributor-Perf/1975-Oldsmobile-Cutlass/_/N-iohf0Za04ve?counter=0&itemIdentifier=88591_92131_0_

Also, would I need to run premium with this? Any chance it would help with gas milage? '75 350 BTW.

[74hurstolds]

I recommend you read this:

http://www.gofastforless.com/ignition/advance.htm

and this:

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11689

...before you do anything.

And buy one of these:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00914066000P?lid=IExTrans_ItemNumber _link&rioptype=SRS&sid=IExTransSearsStoreReady&eml=

[SkylinesSuck]

So I've been reading up and I think I know how everything works. I'm on the hunt for a timing light on island, but I might just buy one and wait on it to get shipped. I replaced my broken vacuum advance with a stock piece. I was wondering about the mechanical advance kits with different springs and what not. Do these require running 93 octane? If they do, that would preclude me from running one since the difference between 86 and 95 octane here is currently about $4 a gallon (I didn't type that wrong.)