Great build for a 455

[1BADOLZ]

Not too many have the expierence and expertise of JOE MONDELLO when it comes to Oldsmobile engine building. He has been named Dr OLDS.

Here is a link to build the 455 and can be done with 455s up to 1976.

http://www.mondellotwister.com/Art455OldsTG.htm

My engine was built to those specs with some variations in heads,intake and carb. Estimate on mine should be about 450hp.

Im pondering the thought of having it dynoed before I finish putting it together in the car. Any recommendations?

[W451973]

Thanks. Thats a good link. It just goes to show you don't need alot of fancy stuff to make the power that most guys on this board would want or need. Now for the all out guys where there is never enough or no such thing as too much, then this isn't for you. :)

It would be cool if we could have a performance build sticky so posts or links like this could be kept.

[Cutlassefi]

Quite frankly I would have expected a bit more power from that, considering the amount of port work.
I made 465hp/525tq from a Hyd roller cammed 455 with bone stock C heads, bone stock Performer and a Quick Fuel 830, made 512tq at 3400, and thats with it running very rich, we left more on the table.

500hp/550tq isn't that difficult. Good machine work helps as well.

[twistedcutlass]

i know a formula for a 455 with iron heads, slight oversize pistons, cam and it makes over 500 hp on premium and is manageable on the street. really not all that hard with a big block olds. i need to dig out the parts list and see what i can manage to buy off it this year........and you dont need to do any fancy work with the oil like mondello likes to do, since the last place to see oil is the guage, as long as you have something there, the motor will not damage itself........ mondello leaves alot of hp on the table with his builds...imo

[1BADOLZ]

I guess your Joe Mondello jr.

Hope your engine stays together.

[Cutlassefi]

I've met Joe and have the utmost respect for him, but there are things that he did that were either unnecessary or just didn't work like he said.
There's no reason to notch the rods, no logic in using fast ramp cams in stock heads with ample compression, no need for oil restrictors etc. For most applications the problem there is the drainback, nothing gets "too much" oil, it just can't get back to the pan quick enough.

Good sound machine work and some common sense will go a long way.

[1BADOLZ]

Maybe someday when you get famous we can bash you

[1BADOLZ]

no need for oil restrictors etc. For most applications the problem there is the drainback, nothing gets "too much" oil, it just can't get back to the pan quick enough.



I think you just stepped on your own dick with this statement

[Cutlassefi]

I think you just stepped on your own dick with this statement

Then please tell me how the restrictors, which have holes larger than the holes in the cam bearing will truly restrict flow?

I wasn't bashing him, in fact I sat with him for almost 30 minutes at the PRI last year and happened to discuss this with him, so I think you just stepped on your dick.

[1BADOLZ]

nothing gets "too much" oil, it just can't get back to the pan quick enough.


If you dont understand how this statement totally contradicts itself then there isnt much more to say except KABOOM.

Peak HP is only 1 aspect of a good engine. Whats your max rpm?

[Cutlassefi]

If you dont understand how this statement totally contradicts itself then there isnt much more to say except KABOOM.

Peak HP is only 1 aspect of a good engine. Whats your max rpm?

o.k. then the top gets too much oil, only because it can't drain back fast enough, is that better?

Done several without restrictors or a lot of the things Joe mentioned, including my own 350, no issues, ever.

[zodiacblue442]

o.k. then the top gets too much oil, only because it can't drain back fast enough,

This is why you shouldn't run a high volume oil pump in an Olds, unless an extra capacity pan is installed. The oil has a hard enough time draining back fast enough with a stock pump, and with a high volume pump at high rpms the pan will be sucked dry which is bad news for the bottom end.

[ragz442]

This is why you shouldn't run a high volume oil pump in an Olds, unless an extra capacity pan is installed. The oil has a hard enough time draining back fast enough with a stock pump, and with a high volume pump at high rpms the pan will be sucked dry which is bad news for the bottom end.

I've heard this alot over the years, but I've ran a Melling hv pump in my '77 350 for 6 years, quite a few quarter mile passes also, and never had a problem. I installed a hv pump on the motor I built for the '76 also, haven't fired that one up yet though.

[Steve Curry]

Joe Mondello hasn't been the Olds guru since the 70's. That torch was passed long ago.

[1BADOLZ]

Joe Mondello hasn't been the Olds guru since the 70's. That torch was passed long ago.

Your talking but nothings coming out.

[Steve Curry]

Your talking but nothings coming out.

LOL, After Joe Mondello it was Dave Smith. Dave Smith ran DX block Pro Stock cars in the late 70's and early 80's and was king of Oldsmobile performance. Dave made big jumps in Olds performance over what Mondello offered, Dave's parts line was marketed thru Kenne-Bell. Today there are at least half a dozen shops that build better performing engines than Mondello, even saavy home builders make more power. Mondello has been operating on his 70's reputation for the past 30 years. Look at the Mondello VO Twister, how fast is it? Does Mondello compete in the Popular Hot Rodding Engine Masters Challenge, no.

[1BADOLZ]

lol, after joe mondello it was dave smith. Dave smith ran dx block pro stock cars in the late 70's and early 80's and was king of oldsmobile performance. Dave made big jumps in olds performance over what mondello offered, dave's parts line was marketed thru kenne-bell. Today there are at least half a dozen shops that build better performing engines than mondello, even saavy home builders make more power. Mondello has been operating on his 70's reputation for the past 30 years. Look at the mondello vo twister, how fast is it? Does mondello compete in the popular hot rodding engine masters challenge, no.

you sound like a bitter man that all you want to do is bash dr olds.

Anyone can build an engine and theres alot more to it then you will ever cover here. Joe has forgot more then most people will ever know.

So many variables

#1 will it stay together and how long.

More power means nothing if it wont.

You can build a jet airplane if you have enough money.

Not everyone has $11000 to have willy wonka build them an engine.

Engine building isny bible study and there are a million ways to do it.

Ive seen alot of shit talkin about joe and it just proves when your the king people will keep trying to knock you off the hill.

Most people who bad mouth him really have nothing else to do but talk bad about people to make themselves feel good.

[Steve Curry]

you sound like a bitter man that all you want to do is bash dr olds.

Anyone can build an engine and theres alot more to it then you will ever cover here. Joe has forgot more then most people will ever know.

So many variables

#1 will it stay together and how long.

More power means nothing if it wont.

You can build a jet airplane if you have enough money.

Not everyone has $11000 to have willy wonka build them an engine.

Engine building isny bible study and there are a million ways to do it.

Ive seen alot of shit talkin about joe and it just proves when your the king people will keep trying to knock you off the hill.

Most people who bad mouth him really have nothing else to do but talk bad about people to make themselves feel good.

I'm not bitter at all, I'm just telling you how it is. If you want to build your motor to the Mondello formula, more power to you. You have the right to do whatever you want.

[W451973]

First off, there have been leaps and bounds in Oldsmobile performance improvements over the years. Joe was the guru many years ago. Not any more. There are too many guys like Trovato, Smith etc that have taken over and made many advancements and proven some of that old technology is outdated. Joe still deseves the respect for what he has done. No arguement there but this is 2011 and it's time to move on.

Second, that article, while slightly outdated, proves you can make the hp's that MOST, not all, but MOST, Oldsmobile street cars/owners would be happy with. Sure, there is some BS in it like the FOO, F1 and so on, block nickel content. That has been verified and proven BS. But it shows you can do it using the cast heads and a performer intake. Ever notice how alot of guys have spent more and used better parts just to make the same or less power ? For instance, all the magazine Olds 455 bulids ? They ALL build them the exact same way ( has more to do with who is sponsering and paying for advertisements in their magazines ) with Edelbrock heads, Performer intake and a Comp cam, blah blah blah, just to make the same 500 ( rough average ) horse power as that same cast iron head 455 with an old outdated technology such as cam and heads ? There are way too many guys been doing it with the oem cast heads and running fast for too many years. I am extremely grateful that the aftermarket companies such as Edelbrock have stepped up and made stuff for us, such as the heads. And even made improvements to the heads such as the new castings.

Take it and all those magazine articles for what they are and make your changes to what YOU like and what makes YOU happy. Those articles are NOT meant for all out race motors so talking race motor improvements and tech is a total waste of time in this topic and conversation.

I agree with alot of statements above. Don't believe everything you read in magazines or online. I personally believe that oil restricters and notching the rods are useless. Oil improvements ARE nessasary (sp?) such as oil returns back down to the pan. I've never liked Toro pans because of the bump. I'de rather use a stock oil pump and pan for a street motor. If I was building a race motor then it would be different. And you simply cannot beat NEW cam technology. Roller cams are great but NOT needed for a street motor or anything less then 400 plus horsepower. It's way too easy to make 400 plus with a hydrolic flat tappet. Once again, better used for a race motor. THE EXTRA COST OF THAT PLUS THE PARTS NEEDED FOR IT WOULD BE BETTER SPENT ON OTHER THINGS. You don't need "custom" pistons, aftermarket rods and cranks or aftermarket heads to make around 500 horsepower. There are too many guys doing it with factory, oem, "modified", cranks, rods and heads using heavy TRW or Speed Pro pistons. Check out our clubs website for just a few examples. Some of the stuff hasn't been updated in a while so don't pay attention to my old pos.

http://home.comcast.net/~wmachines/SR2/Streetrocket2.htm

There are many more out there doing it as well. I'm NOT knocking the aftermarket stuff. On the contray, I'm very grateful for it. It's your wallet and if thats what you want to buy then by all means please do so. It keeps the aftermaket in bussiness and shows we need/want it. I just believe in spending money wisely. It's all in the details. Details are another reason why you use a machinist/shop that KNOWS Oldsmobiles and NOT just one thats been building race motors ( usually Chevys and Fords ) for years and has done a few Olds motors. Check around, you'll find those are the ones that rarely perform as expected or last very long. You'll find that the hardcore Buick and Pontiac guys feel the same way. There must be a reason.

Ok, I'm ready, critique (sp?) away.

[Steve Curry]

Joe deserves respect, no denying that. In the 70's Mondello was the place to go as an Olds guy to buy performance engine parts. But time moved on and Joe never did.

The guys moving Olds performance forward are: Bill Trovato, John Stolpa, Mark Smith, Andy Miller, Dave Smith, Brad Wise and others. These guys are getting us new parts to make our Oldsmobiles more powerful than ever before. Dick Miller is a Mondello disciple but has produced some new stuff. Milan Obradovich is a retired Fire Captain but builds some of the finest and most powerful big block Olds engines on the planet in his home shop. This list could go on and on. No disrespect to the guys I didn't mention, but this could be a very long list if you were to name all the accomplished Olds builders professional or hobbiest fighting the good fight.

[74hurstolds]

Heard it all before on ROP and other sites, surprised it made it here. I treat this site for the specific heritage of '73-'77's - not performance. Not saying its not a good topic to talk about, but certainly this site is not for the arguments of Olds power, it's all been said before. Might as well import all the other threads from ROP along with the sick content. IMHO Joe was there in the beginning and paved the way for the guys who are out there now.

[Steve Curry]

Heard it all before on ROP and other sites, surprised it made it here. I treat this site for the specific heritage of '73-'77's - not performance. Not saying its not a good topic to talk about, but certainly this site is not for the arguments of Olds power, it's all been said before. Might as well import all the other threads from ROP along with the sick content. IMHO Joe was there in the beginning and paved the way for the guys who are out there now.

Do you buy perfomance parts? Why shouldn't this site be interested in Olds performance?

[74hurstolds]

Do you buy perfomance parts? Why shouldn't this site be interested in Olds performance?

Your right. Who am I to say what this site should and shouldn't have. No I am only interested in restoration.

[Cutlassefi]

I think the world of Joe, spoke to him at length 2 years ago at the PRI, great guy, and yes paved the way for all of us.
But that doesn't mean I have to agree with all his ideas, in fact we talked about that, no issues. He said those were just things that worked for him, not to say other ways won't work as well.

[74hurstolds]

Recently bought Bills book and it is a great read.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d.html/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/190-1676534-2170665?a=1934709042

[W451973]

Regardless of ROP this site is here for anything to do with 73-77. That includes anything from restoration to performance. There are alot of members that do not know or participate in/on or about ROP or HPO.

Bill has put out the ultimate Oldsmobile performance book/manual ever made. I would recommend everyone serious about Olds performance to buy it. But not everyone here wants to build an all out race car or anything close to that so rehashing or disscussing it is more then appropriate for this forum.