a suspension discussion

[PSU442]

this question is directed mostly at Keith but I look forward to everyone chimming in...

Keith -- checking out your cardomain page, I saw the suspension work you've had done...

The rear suspension has HO Racing springs, KYB shocks and an 1 1/2" swaybar

i was wondering if this set-up is geared toward better handling or straight-line drag racing. Future suspension work is looming on my horizon. I'm hoping to one day have a great handling, efficient, and safe Olds (I'll get into that some other time.) Look forward to hearing what you've accomplished and what others have done. Thanks...

[keith455]

I was aiming for better handling but i never got around to finishing the suspension. The front is still all stock but I have the parts to upgrade it. Eventually I'd like to get some bigger rims and lower profile tires and lower the car a bit. We need to get Andre' on here to hear about his setup.

[PSU442]

you mean I'm not the only one who leans toward the pro-touring look? i'm also a fan of the torque thrust rims... too bad everybody and their mother has them at shows. So tell me what you've got for your front suspension.

[keith455]

Front I have sitting in a box a pair of HO Racing springs and kyb shocks. But I want to do the control arm bushings and everything so i never got around to it.
For rims I'd like to get a set of 16 or 17's that look like the factory rally rims.

[PSU442]

eastwood makes a 17" SS1. Might be cool. Never seen one in person. They also make a wider SS2/SS3... a few years ago I was all for it but now-a-days, like I said earlier, I lean toward better handling so the last thing i need is a 10" wide rim in the back.

http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=9158&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=1027&iSubCat=1034&iProductID=9158

[PSU442]

I'm really settling on a suspension overhaul as my summer 'project' and I just looked over P-S-T's online catalog. Give me some opinions on these kits. To be honest, I really know nothing about suspensions except what i've read in catalogs. So get as basic as you want. My goal is a great (and I do mean great) handling '77, so any ideas just throw 'em out. At the moment, I'm looking at shocks and sway bars. Please point me in the right direction!

Option A:
PST High Performance G-MAX Sway Bar Kit (1-1/4" front & 1" rear) --- $139
(http://www.p-s-t.com/gm/gmsway.html)
PST Performance POLYGRAPHITE Front End Kit --- $239
(http://www.p-s-t.com/gm/gmfekpg.html)
KYB Gas-A-Just Shocks (set of 4) --- $149
(http://www.p-s-t.com/gm/gmkyb.html)

Option B: (though not available for our model it may be worth a call)
Hotchkis Performance GM Sway Bar Kit (1-3/8" front & 1" rear) --- $399
KYB Gas-A-Just Shocks (set of 4) --- $149
(http://www.p-s-t.com/gm/gmkyb.html)

Option C:
Whatever you guys suggest!!! I haven't gotten around to looking over other stores so I'm sure there are a few more options to be found....

[keith455]

You're forgetting springs, front and rear.
And control arms in the rear. I know they make stronger boxed arms instead of our "U" shaped arms that are weaker.
I have HO Racing springs and rear sway bar. Here's their website
http://www.hoenterprises.com/ give them a call and see what they have.

[PSU442]

is your car lowered??? if so, let me know how it turned out. The pics look great (even if its not dropped.) i emailed those guys, explained myself, we'll see what suggestions they have. now, i'm worried about busting my budget. so here's my next question: is there any way to do this in stages or is it easiest to do it all at once?

[keith455]

If i remember correctly I think they were stock hight springs. Back when i bought them i wanted to keep the big tires /smaller tires look. If i'd do it again i would have dropped it a bit.
You can do it in stages if you want to pull things apart more then once.

[psquare75]

I might use these on my 75.... and paint the center of the spokes gold.. I think these look REALLY close to SSIII rims.

http://www.coyswheel.com/images/c57.jpg

http://www.coyswheel.com/coys-c57.html

[PSU442]

that rim has potential, that's for sure. In fact, looking over that site, they're me NEW favorite custom rim company. That solves the problem I have with the Torque Thrusts (that everyone has them.) Thanks for posting it! Are you going to go 17"? Anyway, I'm still waiting to hear back from HO but I've been trying to find more alternatives on the web. Man, this is frustrating. I can't find any sort of drop springs for our cars. psquare75 - have you/are you lowering your car? keith455 - if i do end up doing stages, how would you break them up? Springs and shocks, sway bars & bushings, etc. Where do the control arms fit in best? Obviously, I have a huge learning curve here. Luckily, I have another gear head, a corvette guy, who will be helping me through installation.

[psquare75]

I'm probably going to do 18s... I have 17s on my Mercury Cougar, and they look smallish.

I haven't lowered it yet..

More than likely for handling I'll do boxed rear control arms, B body spindles with a 1LE rotor, rear discs from something factory, F body addco front sway bar, the big addco rear sway bar, cut the springs to match and call it a day.. I had 350 springs with my 455, I liked how it sat.

[PSU442]

argh... i'm already slacking on this. Need to keep researching... out of curiosity, what size sway bars do I have on my '77 442 from the factory?

[psquare75]

I *want* to say 1 1/8 and 3/4 on a 442, but I could be wrong. Fronts could be had in different sizes depending on the car.

For fun, go around the block with the front unhooked :-P.

[PSU442]

ha --- i don't want to die.

[GT73]

Most 442's from '73-'77 came with FE2 (factory sport suspensions), this included a rear sway bar (often 7/8" or 1") with heavy duty springs and shocks. The front sway bar was also beefier than the regular 5/8" bars on none FE2 cars.

I have recently upgraded my supsension on my '73 Cutlass Supreme.
I wanted better handling all around, not just for drag racing, so after years of research, here is what I went with...

Front Suspension
- replaced stock sway bar with 1" bar and installed a new Moog link kit
- installed Munroe Sensi Trak gas shocks (KYB's are also good)
- replaced all bushings with Moog polyurethane bushings
- replaced upper and lower ball joints
- installed regular Moog springs (non A/C, not heavy duty)

I initially had heavy duty springs for A/C cars installed, but found that the ride height was way too high, considering that I have installed an Edelbrock aluminum Performer intake, aluminum rad, water pump and rocker covers, over the years, thus the front end has become much lighter. So beware, the old way of thinking was to install the beefiest springs, but watch out for overall ride height.

My mentally is to keep the car low and therefore more aerodynamic.

Rear Suspension
- Moog regular springs
- Munroe Sensi Trak gas shocks (again KYB are fine instead)
- added adjustable air bags that compensate for the right rear wheel having a tendancy of lifting during hard accelaration, therefore right rear wheel is higher (more psi in the bag)
- added 7/8" rear sway bar
- replaced lower control arm with Global West suspensions control arm, which comes with Del-A-lum bushings rather than polyurethane.

The reasoning is based on not wanting too stiff of a feel or wheel hop in the rear.

If you want stock rims, the best are the bolt on center capped 15" Super Stock III rims from Olds, they are rare and came on Cutlass Salon cars, otherwise, the 15x7" Super Stock III rims with pop on center caps are just as good. These rims can handle 245/60's in the front and 275/60's in the rear.

Going to a taller rim means lower sidewall height on your tires, which aids in handling, but takes away that smooth feel with taller tires. In other words, the lower profile the tire, the more you feel every little bump on the road. Try and keep the overall tire and rim height to that of the stock height or you will have to recalibrate your speedometer. I had this done at a truck centre.

Don't forget to replace your body mount bushings as well.

Doing these mods will result in much better handling, while retaining that "Special Feel in your Oldsmobile" (smoothness).

[GT73]

Most 442's from '73-'77 came with FE2 (factory sport suspensions), this included a rear sway bar (often 7/8" or 1") with heavy duty springs and shocks. The front sway bar was also beefier than the regular 5/8" bars on none FE2 cars.

I have recently upgraded my supsension on my '73 Cutlass Supreme.
I wanted better handling all around, not just for drag racing, so after years of research, here is what I went with...

Front Suspension
- replaced stock sway bar with 1" bar and installed a new Moog link kit
- installed Munroe Sensi Trak gas shocks (KYB's are also good)
- replaced all bushings with Moog polyurethane bushings
- replaced upper and lower ball joints
- installed regular Moog springs (non A/C, not heavy duty)

I initially had heavy duty springs for A/C cars installed, but found that the ride height was way too high, considering that I have installed an Edelbrock aluminum Performer intake, aluminum rad, water pump and rocker covers, over the years, thus the front end has become much lighter. So beware, the old way of thinking was to install the beefiest springs, but watch out for overall ride height.

My mentally is to keep the car low and therefore more aerodynamic.

Rear Suspension
- Moog regular springs
- Munroe Sensi Trak gas shocks (again KYB are fine instead)
- added adjustable air bags that compensate for the right rear wheel having a tendancy of lifting during hard accelaration, therefore right rear wheel is higher (more psi in the bag)
- added 7/8" rear sway bar
- replaced lower control arm with Global West suspensions control arm, which comes with Del-A-lum bushings rather than polyurethane.

The reasoning is based on not wanting too stiff of a feel or wheel hop in the rear.

If you want stock rims, the best are the bolt on center capped 15" Super Stock III rims from Olds, they are rare and came on Cutlass Salon cars, otherwise, the 15x7" Super Stock III rims with pop on center caps are just as good. These rims can handle 245/60's in the front and 275/60's in the rear.

Going to a taller rim means lower sidewall height on your tires, which aids in handling, but takes away that smooth feel with taller tires. In other words, the lower profile the tire, the more you feel every little bump on the road. Try and keep the overall tire and rim height to that of the stock height or you will have to recalibrate your speedometer. I had this done at a truck centre.

Don't forget to replace your body mount bushings as well.

Doing these mods will result in much better handling, while retaining that "Special Feel in your Oldsmobile" (smoothness).

[GT73]

My Dad's 73 Supreme never came with FE2 or heavy duty suspension, therefore the lower rear control arms did not have the holes in order to add a rear sway bar.

Tired of waiting to find a decent pair of lower control arms, I ordered and just received a pair from Global West. They are totally amazing, rather than just box or refurbish old control arms, they manufacture them brand new and specifically for our cars (73-77).

They even come with the 2 holes for the rear sway bar and with all the necessary hardware (bolts, nuts, washers). Also picked up a pair of frame supports.

Global West does not recommend using polyurethane or polygraphite bushings on the lower rear control arms, stating that this leads to a harsh ride/wheel hop. I have to agree with their logic unless you plan on using your car strictly for drag racing. They use Del-a-lum bushings which are more flexible.

Looking forward to matching these with new variable rate coil springs, new Munroe gas shocks, Olds sway bar and new Moog upper control arm bushings (polyurethane) in order to strengthen the rear.

Lastly, don't forget to replace the 2 rubber bumpers that go on top of the differential (Fusick)